Legislature(1999 - 2000)

04/19/2000 02:00 PM House FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 301(FIN)                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
"An Act relating to the Chitina dip net fishing permit;                                                                         
and providing for an effective date."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault provided members with a proposed                                                                            
committee substitute, work draft 1-LS1516\S, dated 4/19/00                                                                      
(copy on file).                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WILKEN, SPONSOR testified in support of CSSB
301(FIN). The Chitina fishery is one of the largest in the                                                                      
state. Over 10,000 household permits are issued each year,                                                                      
with approximately 20,000 - 30,000 Alaskan residents                                                                            
participating. Last year approximately 118,000 salmon were                                                                      
harvested. In Dec. 1999, the Alaska Board of Fisheries                                                                          
reclassified the Chitina Personal Use fishery to a                                                                              
Subsistence fishery. The designation of the dip net fishery                                                                     
as subsistence will have little impact on the way the                                                                           
fishery is managed and has little to do with the need to                                                                        
secure public access and provide services. Regulations                                                                          
governing the Chitina Fishery require people to have a                                                                          
permit issued by the Department in their possession. This                                                                       
permit serves as the harvest record.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
AS 10.05.340 (a) (22) sets a fee for a "Chitina Personal                                                                        
Use Dip net Permit" at $10. This fee has been in place since                                                                    
1990. Proceeds from this fee go the fish and game fund and                                                                      
have been used to pay Chitina & Ahtna Native Corporations                                                                       
for access across their lands and for outhouse and garbage                                                                      
services. An agreement between the Department of Fish and                                                                       
Game and the Corporations determines the percentage                                                                             
distribution and services.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senate Bill 301 amends the existing statute by renaming the                                                                     
"Chitina Personal Use Salmon Dip Net" fishing permit to the                                                                     
"Chitina Dip Net" fishing permit, and increases the permit                                                                      
fee from $10 to $25 dollars. It changes the name of the                                                                         
permit to remove the words "personal use", as it is no                                                                          
longer a "personal use" fishery. The legislation changes the                                                                    
fee to coincide with the new agreement reached between the                                                                      
Corporations and the Department of Fish and Game. This new                                                                      
agreement is intended to provide for maximum legal public                                                                       
access to the dip net fishery while minimizing conflicts                                                                        
between the private landowners and the fishermen at Chitina.                                                                    
The legislation was amended in the Senate to exempt senior                                                                      
citizens.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wilken observed that private property owners are                                                                        
impacted by dip netters crossing their land to access the                                                                       
river. The legislation is an attempt to negotiate a                                                                             
settlement between corporations, private landowners and the                                                                     
state to resolve conflicts of private property and signs and                                                                    
fences.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
In 2000, dip netters will pay $25 for their permit. Since                                                                       
the fishery is now designated a subsistence fishery there is                                                                    
no requirement for a sport-fishing license to fish there. In                                                                    
1999, people were required to have a $15 dollar sport                                                                           
fishing license and the $10 dollar Chitina permit, for a                                                                        
total expense of $25 dollars. Under this plan, only the                                                                         
proposed $25 dollar Chitina permit will be required.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Since the Chitina permit is a household permit, families                                                                        
could save under this plan. For example a family of two                                                                         
adults paid a total of $40 dollars last year, this year it                                                                      
will only be $25 dollars. Services will be significantly                                                                        
increased and improved over past years. Access to the Native                                                                    
lands is more identified than in previous agreements. The                                                                       
process of obtaining the permit will be available from                                                                          
Department offices in Anchorage, Palmer, Fairbanks,                                                                             
Glennallen and Chitina. This will allow better service to the                                                                   
public, making it easier and faster to obtain the permit, and                                                                   
decreasing the management costs to the Department of Fish &                                                                     
Game.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Without a change in the name of the permit, the Department is                                                                   
unable to collect a fee for the permit, because it is not a                                                                     
personal use fishery. Without the permit fee or other                                                                           
provisions, funding for services and access would be                                                                            
unavailable. It is uncertain what the Corporations would do                                                                     
with regard to affecting access to the river, but families                                                                      
going to Chitina this summer could be faced with the                                                                            
potential for conflict.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wilkens noted that the legislation is supported by                                                                      
the Alaska Outdoor Council, Alaska Dip Netters Association,                                                                     
and the Fairbanks Fish and Game Advisory Committee.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Vice Chair Bunde observed that the revenue collected by the                                                                     
Department of Fish and Game would be reduced. He pointed out                                                                    
that those that are not trespassing would still need                                                                            
permits.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wilken responded that everyone has the opportunity                                                                      
to trespass. He emphasized that he would not have introduced                                                                    
the legislation if he didn't think that private land was                                                                        
being impacted. Boaters fish from the shore, which can be                                                                       
public or private.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative J. Davies spoke in support of the legislation                                                                    
and stressed that there is a problem.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative Phillips spoke in support of the legislation                                                                     
and stressed that there is a similar problem in Homer with                                                                      
hunting in the backcountry.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
STAN BLOOM, FAIRBANKS testified via teleconference in                                                                           
support of the legislation. He spoke in support of the                                                                          
intent language adopted by the Senate Finance Committee. He                                                                     
stressed that dip netters pay for their services. He                                                                            
observed that state funding is not available to pay for the                                                                     
services. He felt that the legislation would help to reduce                                                                     
conflicts. He pointed out that 30,000 dip netters impact                                                                        
land owned by Native corporations.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault clarified that Mr. Bloom supports the                                                                       
intent and findings included in the legislation. Mr. Bloom                                                                      
added that money should be appropriated for services. He                                                                        
added that the Department of Transportation and Public                                                                          
Facilities should be involved and included in the intent                                                                        
language.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ALLEN BARRETTE, FAIRBANKS testified via teleconference in                                                                       
opposition to CSSB 301(FIN). He noted that the court ruled                                                                      
that there is a 300-foot easement to the river. There is a                                                                      
right-of-way provision included in state law. He maintained                                                                     
that there is plenty of public land available without                                                                           
trespassing. He expressed concern that the legislation would                                                                    
encourage other large property owners to negotiate                                                                              
trespassing taxs with the Department of Fish and Game. He                                                                       
noted that sportsmen and subsistence users use a state trail                                                                    
though his private property. He questioned if the Department                                                                    
of Fish and Game would collect a trespass fee for other                                                                         
areas. He asserted that other groups are not being charged                                                                      
an access fee.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
LISA HARBO, FAIRBANKS testified via teleconference in                                                                           
opposition to CSSB 301(FIN). She did not feel that she                                                                          
should pay an access fee to the state for fishing on the                                                                        
railroad right-of-way, which belongs to the state. She                                                                          
stressed that the state should establish where public access                                                                    
exists instead of requiring a fee.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MARK HEM, FAIRBANKS testified via teleconference in                                                                             
opposition to the legislation. He pointed out that the                                                                          
Native Corporation is a conglomerate of landowners operating                                                                    
for profit. He suggested that money be set aside to survey                                                                      
the land and determine the problem. He acknowledged that                                                                        
there is no agreement and that there may be problems in                                                                         
Chitina, but emphasized that it is not a good reason to pass                                                                    
a law. He stressed that the state would be guilty of                                                                            
discrimination if it refused an access tax on other private                                                                     
land used to access state land. He noted that the fee was                                                                       
charged 10 years ago, but pointed out that the fishery has                                                                      
increased. He maintained that most people do not know that                                                                      
they are paying a trespass fee, but think they are paying a                                                                     
fishing permit. He asserted that there are objections to                                                                        
paying a fee to a private corporation.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault asked if Mr. Hem had seen the proposed                                                                      
committee substitute, which would provide funding to                                                                            
identify public lands within the Copper River Railroad                                                                          
right-of-way. Mr. Hem responded that he had reviewed the                                                                        
proposed committee substitute. He acknowledged that the                                                                         
proposal is a good attempt to try to reconcile something for                                                                    
the up coming year. He expressed concern that the state                                                                         
would give public money to survey private property. Co-Chair                                                                    
Therriault pointed out that when he surveyed his property                                                                       
that his neighbors also benefited. He stressed that the                                                                         
state's right-of-way is being surveyed. Mr. Hem noted that                                                                      
the corporations are putting forth the allegations of                                                                           
trespass.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
GREG MACHACEK, FAIRBANKS testified via teleconference in                                                                        
support of the legislation. He recommended that the problem                                                                     
be put to rest. He acknowledged that corporations may                                                                           
benefit from marking the right-of-way, but emphasized that                                                                      
it needs to be addressed. He felt that the fee was on the                                                                       
high end. He maintained that if the legislation does not                                                                        
pass that more people would access the fishery from boats.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
TOM SCARBOROUGH, FAIRBANKS testified via teleconference. He                                                                     
stressed that the Department of Transportation and Public                                                                       
Facilities is the manager of the right-of-way. He emphasized                                                                    
the need for a physical survey to establish the right-of-                                                                       
way. He felt that the Department of Natural Resources should                                                                    
manage the area as a state campground and that the                                                                              
Department of Fish and Game should manage the fishery. He                                                                       
did not think the legislation is a long-term solution. He                                                                       
estimated that it would take $100 thousand dollars to survey                                                                    
the land and recommended that the state purchase the land,                                                                      
He suggested a sunset clause. He questioned if the current                                                                      
Administration would address the situation.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JOSEPH HART, ATTORNEY, AHTNA, GLENNALLEN testified via                                                                          
teleconference in support of the legislation. He noted that                                                                     
he represents the corporations that negotiated the agreement                                                                    
with the state. He pointed out that the mean high watermark                                                                     
has never been established. The private property owners                                                                         
provided the toilets that are present. He noted that other                                                                      
states require a fee for private property access. He                                                                            
observed that the agreement has been in place for more than                                                                     
ten years. He maintained that money should be put aside to                                                                      
pay for services. He noted that the Native Corporation pays                                                                     
people to pick up trash from those that are using their land                                                                    
to access the fishery. He observed that the corporation owns                                                                    
the land beneath the right-of-way. He maintained that the                                                                       
land is not for sale or trade.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
(TAPE CHANGE, HFC 00 - 127, SIDE 2)                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
In response to a question by Co-Chair Therriault, Mr. Hart                                                                      
acknowledged that it would be good to establish the right-                                                                      
of-way. He felt that establishment of the right-of-way would                                                                    
strengthen their arguments that the public is going outside                                                                     
the right-of-way. He maintained that there are safety                                                                           
concerns with parking. The original fee request was $25                                                                         
dollars and would make public money available for services.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Austerman pointed out that other private                                                                         
landowners establish and collect their own fees. Mr. Hart                                                                       
responded that the Department of Fish and Game agreed to                                                                        
work with private landowners and the public to collect fees.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOE BALASH, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT provided                                                                           
information on the legislation. He explained that the                                                                           
Department of Natural Resources was included since they                                                                         
manage state land. There was not a conscious decision to                                                                        
exclude the Department of Transportation and Public                                                                             
Facilities. Co-Chair Therriault suggested that the                                                                              
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities be                                                                           
included. He pointed out that the Corporation technically                                                                       
owns all the land within the right-of-way.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
DICK BISHOP, VICE-PRESIDENT, ALASKA OUTDOOR COUNCIL (AOC)                                                                       
testified in support of the legislation. He observed that                                                                       
the intent language reflects concerns and maintained that it                                                                    
is appropriate. The legislation is essential to allow people                                                                    
to fish in the coming summer. A long-term solution would                                                                        
still be needed. He agreed that the Department of                                                                               
Transportation and Public Facilities would need to be                                                                           
consulted. He pointed out that the intent is to assure that                                                                     
the fishery can begin at the start of the season. He                                                                            
acknowledged that not all of the members agree with the                                                                         
Council's position.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative Austerman questioned if the state should be                                                                      
responsible for the collection of fees charged by other                                                                         
private property owners that imposed an access fee for                                                                          
hunting. Mr. Bishop responded that the ideal situation would                                                                    
be for the private landowner to take responsibility for the                                                                     
collection of fees. He stressed that it is not possible to                                                                      
address the issue in the context of the bill. He added the                                                                      
issue should not preclude resolution that would allow dip                                                                       
netters to have access in the current season.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Vice Chair Bunde observed that a sport fishing license fee                                                                      
cannot be assessed, since it is no longer a sport fishery.                                                                      
He felt that there should be some cost associated with the                                                                      
use of the resource. He noted that the state would retain $7                                                                    
dollars of each trespass fee that it collects. He questioned                                                                    
the financial impact on the Department of Fish and Game.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
KEVIN BROOKS, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES,                                                                    
DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME acknowledged that the change in                                                                     
designation has created problems. The entire amount would                                                                       
come to the state. The state would pay the corporations $18                                                                     
dollars of the $25 dollar fee. The department will work to                                                                      
maintain efforts to manage the fishery. He noted that the                                                                       
legislation would be a solution for the upcoming season,                                                                        
while they continue to work on a long-term solution.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Vice Chair Bunde questioned the cost of collecting the fee                                                                      
and stated that he would like to see the activity pay for                                                                       
itself. Mr. Brooks responded that the $7 dollars would cover                                                                    
the provision of services that have been described, such as                                                                     
bathrooms. The management cost would be born by the                                                                             
department. He noted that cost would not be under the                                                                           
Division of Sport Fish. He observed that it would be hard to                                                                    
quantify the cost of the collection because there is already                                                                    
an ongoing effort. He stressed that the fee is to cover                                                                         
access.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
In response to a question by Representative Austerman, Mr.                                                                      
Brooks confirmed that a portion of the $10 fee that was                                                                         
charged before it became a subsistence fishery covered                                                                          
access fees to the private landowner.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative Austerman asked if there is a regulation to                                                                      
institute an agreement between the landowners and the fees                                                                      
that were collected. Mr. Brook responded that the department                                                                    
has statutory authority to enter into cooperative agreements                                                                    
under Title 16. He noted discussions are occurring regarding                                                                    
the collection of fees.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault amended the proposed committee                                                                              
substitute to read: Department of Natural Resources and the                                                                     
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities to                                                                           
identify the portion of the Copper River Railroad right-of-                                                                     
way, associated with the Chitina dip net fishery, to carry                                                                      
out this intent. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so                                                                            
ordered.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Mulder MOVED to ADOPT work draft 1-LS1516\S, dated                                                                     
4/19/00 as amended. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so                                                                         
ordered.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wilken expressed his appreciation for the amendments                                                                    
to the legislation, but questioned if the change from a 5-                                                                      
year to a 3-year negotiated agreement would be of concern to                                                                    
the Department of Fish and Game.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative J. Davies suggested that the sunset be on                                                                        
June 1, 2001. Co-Chair Therriault noted that there is a                                                                         
contract for the current year and that the next negotiation                                                                     
would be for three years.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wilken noted that the legislation only fixes the                                                                        
fee. Negotiations on the agreement can occur without                                                                            
changing the fee or requiring additional legislation.                                                                           
Representative J. Davies responded that the sunset date                                                                         
would require the legislature to review the issues.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative J. Davies MOVED to ADOPT a sunset date of on                                                                     
June 1, 2001. Co-Chair Mulder OBJECTED.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
KARA MORIARTY, STAFF, SENATOR WILKEN explained that the                                                                         
department expressed concern that a sunset would be                                                                             
detrimental to negotiations.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative J. Davies WITHDREW his motion.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Austerman questioned the fee structure. Mr.                                                                      
Brooks explained that there would be a new fiscal note of                                                                       
$150 thousand dollars in contractual: $130 fish and game                                                                        
funds and $20 general funds from the senior exemption.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative Austerman observed that the legislation                                                                          
specifies that the survey would be paid from the fee                                                                            
collected. Mr. Brooks noted that there is $100 thousand                                                                         
dollars from the $10 dollar that was collected. Co-Chair                                                                        
Therriault observed that the cost of the survey would be                                                                        
negotiated; it would not preclude the department from                                                                           
requesting general fund support from a future legislature.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Brooks clarified that the revenue estimate is based on                                                                      
10,000 permits resulting at $150 thousand dollars. This                                                                         
money would be fully allocated for the current year.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Mulder MOVED to report HCS CSSB 301 (FIN) out of                                                                       
Committee with the accompanying fiscal note. Representative                                                                     
J. Davies OBJECTED for the purpose of discussion. Mr. Brooks                                                                    
explained that the amount collected, which goes to the                                                                          
department is the existing $100 thousand dollars. Co-Chair                                                                      
Therriault noted that there is enough authorization to                                                                          
reflect the portion of the money that is retained by the                                                                        
department.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Austerman noted that the survey would not be                                                                     
done until the next year.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HCS CSSB 301(FIN) was REPORTED out of Committee with a "do                                                                      
pass" recommendation and with a new fiscal impact note by                                                                       
the Department of Fish and Game.                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects